Transcript

RNZ ...
TikTok does have its uses for business and for content creators who can reach a global audience that few other apps could match, if any. Anthony Young knows this because he spent many years at big ad agencies overseas before founding local agency Media Lab in Wellington.  
ANTONY YOUNG ....We always hope that the media does have a healthy level of scepticism, but there always seems to be a little bit more spice added when reporting on a competitive media outlet. But I certainly think that with the likes of TikTok and Meta and Google, they're always going to come under a little bit more venom. Damien Venetto, I think he was the first one out of the blocks. But Damien does come from some area of expertise. He was a former editor of Stock Press, uh, which covers the advertising industry. Stuff has been on a little bit of a crusade with Lloyd Burr pointing out about the government spending on the likes of Meta. They're right to question it because it is a piece of research funded by TikTok. On top of all that I do think there is some merit in the sentiment of what TikTok is contributing.
RNZ ...
It is a tool, isn't it? TikTok, where businesses or individuals who want to be influencers or turn themselves into a business can operate. But is it the case you think like, as some of the sceptics? For pointing out, well, if TikTok didn't exist, other social media outlets would be taking on that role of publicising things, and that's where the, the money and the, and the employment might
ANTONY YOUNG ...
That is true. I would say that TikTok is, is more an enabler than necessarily a creator of that economic value, but in saying that, TikTok, when compared to Instagram and Facebook, which comes under the Meta earns and receives less paid advertising spending. I could give an example, Hei, which is a little Chinese restaurant on, on Cuba Street, just down the road from ourselves. We helped them out with some, some TikToks. Within 3 days, they had 120,000 views. No advertising spending behind it, and people started coming in. So, businesses that haven't, You know, they don't have any marketing budget are tapping into TikTok, more so than Instagram and Facebook. It's growing their business. The likes of Facebook and Instagram relied on people having large followings. And TikTok, broke through that model by, you know, you could have one follower, but a really interesting piece of content that could go viral straight away. And so for Instagram and Facebook, it made them change their model into reels. It's essentially a copycat of that algorithm model favouring content. They have a significant role to play. They just try to improve their marketing. Share when it comes to to advertising spending.
RNZ ...
It was really interesting how quickly that shift happened, didn't it, that suddenly all the other platforms decided they needed to shunt the users and push them into watching reels, you know, as soon as you slip out of a feed of content and watch one. Maybe engage with one video, then suddenly you're in a lineup of a whole lot more, and that was definitely TikTok, right?
ANTONY YOUNG ...
They are a really powerful marketing tool alongside traditional media. it's got a role to play, but it's made it a lot more accessible both from a content creator perspective in terms of getting an audience and as well as a from a business perspective and marketing to an audience at very low cost.
RNZ ...
Well, you're a columnist at StopPress as well, the outlet you mentioned a little earlier, and in your most recent one, you, you wrote about time spent on TV and video in this latest survey, I think in the US, creative content accounts for 26, you know, almost a 25% of all their viewing time, which is amazing and kind of catching up on, Old fashioned broadcasting at about 1/3 of that and another 1/3 with, you know, streaming, Netflix, etc. And you also mentioned that, the LA Times reporting these, micro influencers quitting their jobs to monetize their followers, maybe in the States, but is that even possible here?
ANTONY YOUNG ...
Yes, it is. I mean, the whole content creator marketplace has really exploded in the last couple of years. You've had global companies like Unilever, saying that they, they intend to spend half their advertising budget on content creators as their form of marketing, activity. So that's taken the kind of brand world by storm, but getting closer to New Zealand, yes, it is. Case in point, We were just talking to a food grammar, social influence content creator. And, she happily sent us her rate card for each reel. The rate card cost for that is $7000. So that, that's a New Zealand influencer. So there are lots of those emerging in New Zealand.
RNZ ...
Well, you mentioned the mainstream media when they report on this kind of have skin in the game themselves because they're in the same attention economy along with, uh, all the other media platforms and specifically advertising of the, the commercial ones require advertising income and they've seen that go off to online sources, but is TikTok slightly different in that, they actually have an office here, they have staff here in New Zealand, whereas Platforms. New Zealand's a satellite for them.
ANTONY YOUNG ...
We're a significant advertising buyer on Instagram and Facebook, and, we can barely get to talk to anyone. It's very much an online self-serve advertising platform.
RNZ ...
Same for the news media. When you want actual news stories to try and get comment or engagement, it's really difficult because, for a lot of platforms, You have to send emails offshore and almost get no response. The Herald this week was asking questions about tax. Uh, TikTok actually pays for follow-up stuff, reporting that they get no response. So one suspicion is that some of these tech companies release information like this report when they want. To, um, but it's, it's harder to get info from them both as a commercial client in your case or in our case journalism. Well,
ANTONY YOUNG ...
yeah, it's an advantage that they have because they don't have the kind of overheads that, New Zealand-based media have to have employ in terms of content journalism and as well as advertising staff.  It's where our world is going. It's the way that our media world is shaped. I would say most of the mainstream coverage of Meta and Google, in particular, is pretty negative. I guess you could say the media's job is not to promote companies. It's there to sort of report news. And it, it, it's part of our media ecosystem. Both for young people selling branded products, product placements too, to our politicians and political leaders.  You only have to look at how our politicians are using TikTok now to promote themselves and get their policies out and get their stories shared.
RNZ ...
I'm so glad you brought that up because this week, the milestone of 100 days to the election, that's always something news media like to tack onto, and we're seeing an upswing now, policies coming out, the media being courted every Sunday now, multiple policies being launched by multiple. Parties to try and shape the news agenda. So how do you think will social media, um, play a difference in this and maybe specifically TikTok as well? Does the likes of TikTok enable you to go through the middle and create something short and sharp, but a little bit more sophisticated than just a billboard and a slogan?
ANTONY YOUNG ...
Voters want more than just slogans, that's where social media, TikTok is able to provide that. Particularly for the minor parties who don't have the big advertising budgets that like the likes of National or labour, or, ACT have.  The algorithm starts pointing a lot of that content back into you. Sit's a way of getting deeper and understanding. And so just really knowing who, who you're potentially going to vote for.
RNZ ...
Yeah, I mean, I recall in the last election or maybe the one before, people seized on Shane Jones doing kind of goofy raps, a kind of, you know, novelty thing of an older politician trying to use TikTok. Just currently, I'm seeing a lot of pre-roll advertising when I'm online, ACT Party, for example, David Seymour pops up to apologise for interrupting my entertainment, but reminding me of what he Regards as a kind of policy triumph of theirs from the past 3 years of their term in the coalition government. So is that a key choice you have to make? Do you want politician X on camera as a warm body talking, or is it more slogans, pictures, images with a bit of a soundtrack?
ANTONY YOUNG ...
It's evolving. We saw that in New York when Zohran Mandami was better at using social media  He just came across as a regular person that people could could vote for and kind of really turned around the narrative from his competitors, who were much more active in the paid media sense, trying to paint him as very radical and very socialist. But I think when people were able to see him from his perspective and in front of camera, he was able to turn that around. So, no, I think it's got reach.
RNZ ...
And just one final one, going back to TikTok and the economic impact report of theirs, also the, the New Zealand Herald and Audrey Young, the seasoned political commentator, writing about this. Not only did they release the report, they had a big reception at Parliament with the politicians. There's the possibility of a social media ban that the National Party wants to put in place. Is that kind of good lobbying, good marketing in your mind that Um, you know, not a bad time to maybe get down to Parliament and use that as an opportunity to talk to politicians. Do you think that's part of what's going on here? Uh,
ANTONY YOUNG ...
I don't think so. I think TikTok is trying to build their business in New Zealand. They are quite a bit behind, Meta in terms of where they would probably like to be in terms of ad revenue and income. I think that would be a separate issue. They've got more to gain if they can get businesses spending advertising. Advertising on TikTok rather than just, placing content for free.
RNZ ...
That was Antony Young, founder of the local agency, The Media Lab, which is based in Wellington and which he founded after many years at major media and ad agencies overseas. And do keep an eye out this coming week for The Detail, RNZ's daily podcast with newsroom.co.nz and that special episode all about that TikTok sponsored report into its economic impact here and how the media handled the numbers in it and the claims the company made.